From Farm to Future: How Multi-Generational Agriculture Shapes the North State with Travis Corder

[00:00:00] So we know each other on a lot of levels just because of the size of the community and similar interests. Perry and I were both athletes, both heavily involved in 4 H and FFA and community events. But when Perry and I's relationship really went from being, you know, friends slash acquaintances to realizing that we truly were kindred spirits is, I was dating Perry's wife's sister, and Perry started dating his wife, April, and we found ourselves spending a lot of time together.

[00:00:38] And it was pretty obvious right then, uh, to I believe both of us, that there was an immediate connection. And it was strange because at that time, Perry, how, how old were you at that point in time? Were you like a junior or senior in high school approximately? Yeah, senior. Yeah. My senior year in high school.

[00:00:57] Yeah. Pretty much. To put things into context, you know, four year separation when you're, you know, a senior in high school is a pretty big separation, right? As we know, when we get into our 30s and 40s, it's insignificant, but at that time, you know, it felt like a, a fairly significant gap. Like I said, it was totally obvious at that point in time that, um, Perry and I were, were going to develop an amazing relationship and, uh, for a lack of a better term, it was love at first sight.

[00:01:31] Or at least kind of in my direction. Yeah. At least come in my direction for sure. Yes, yes. Yeah. All right. Well, let's, let's dig into this here a little bit. So, you know, you know what the, kind of the podcast is about, right? So a little bit of that. So this is about kind of you and your business and kind of your perspective on the North state and what is so great about where we live and what is, you know, some of the challenges of where we live.

[00:01:57] And then specifically, I kind of want to just dive into. You know, let's talk about, we both run family, you know, multi generational family businesses, which, you know, have their share of challenges. And so, you know, uh, in fact, the stats for multi generational are pretty poor. Uh, I. I don't remember him off the top of my head, but I want to say second, first generation success, you know, that's always a challenge, but let's say it is successful.

[00:02:25] Right. But then when it's passed on to the next generation, it is, you know, I can't remember what the rates were. It was like something like 50, 60%, you know, success rate, and then. The third generation, uh, is, is like half a giant of that. It's, it's unbelievable. And so kind of talk us through how your family business got going and then, you know, I know it's multi generational, but kind of share, share with us kind of what that looks like and where you are now in that process.

[00:02:57] Sure. So, yeah, you're, you're correct. You know, when I was, um, going to college and. And seriously contemplating being part of the family business and you're looking at those statistics. It is very daunting because I was about to become a fourth generation member of the business. And when you saw that typically the transition from second to third generations were the majority of those businesses fail.

[00:03:23] And I actually spent a lot of time looking at why they failed because I, I realized the torch was going to be passed to me and I didn't want it to fail on my watch. And so what I realized was really obvious in a lot of situations was that leadership wasn't transferred early enough in the process that that that previous family member would, yeah, would hold on to the reins, if you will, and never give the next generation the opportunity.

[00:03:57] And so if that person happens to be 70 or 80 years old and still functioning. That means there's a 60 year old person that's the next generation approximately that really hasn't ever developed any leadership skills, any experience. And so it almost seems obvious, like it was almost designed to fail when you just look at it from a 10, 000, you looking at it from that standpoint.

[00:04:19] Right. Right. Yeah. That's, that's actually tremendous. Um, you know, I'm just kind of reflecting back on how my. So my father and my uncle started, started Hackery Construction, right? So I'm, I'm only really second generation, but my grandfather was in construction and my dad was around his business. Um, but, uh, he folded that business up to come.

[00:04:43] Run the, the family ranches. That's my grandpa I'm talking about and my dad's dad. And then, um, you know, it's funny. I tell people all the time, um, my dad's deceased now, you know, that most people know that, but the, for those that don't, but when. Uh, he ran everything with an iron fist and was just so highly respected.

[00:05:04] He was at Creek construction. I mean, walking around, everyone's like, there goes at Creek construction. I mean, that was my dad. And, uh, so what was interesting is his passion was work. His hobby was work. He loved work. Right. And I always told myself there was no place for me in that business because he is going to run it.

[00:05:23] If he lives to be a hundred, he's going to be the CEO at a hundred, you know, so that's a really, really interesting, um, takeaway that you had there about hanging on too long because I hadn't really put that together. But what changed for me was, you know, like we all know of those, you know, major league baseball dads or.

[00:05:44] Pro football dads, right? Where they maybe made it to college or, and they're like living through their kid. Right? So, well, my dad's version of that is when I went to work for Tyke. So I went through college, got a construction management degree, then went and worked for Tyker construction. And in my dad's world.

[00:06:04] That was the major league baseball or the NFL of, of his hobby, his passion, which was work. And so by going and doing that for five years and being successful down there, when he asked me to come back and help with a transition of a partner that was, you know, they're having trouble with, um, it immediately changed from.

[00:06:26] You might possibly be the dumbest person I've ever met, you know, in most conversations when he's talking to me, uh, to, you know, and that's him talking to me and not the other way around, like you literally Perry might be the dumbest person I've ever met, you know, only with much more flavorful words, uh, to, uh, when I came back, you know, after working at, in the, at the big time, we'll put it in his words, it was, what do you think we should do?

[00:06:52] And that, uh, Um, that never happened, um, until I went and did that. So you know, one of the kind of the things that we have in our family now is, um, you know, why I own this business with Weston, Weston went and worked at a, you know, granite construction, S and C construction before he came here, I worked at Tycoon before I came here.

[00:07:13] And then, so my kids kind of know they had to go forge their own way. Um, Before they could come back here. And then now I'm sitting here going, I don't have any kids in the business. They're all running their own successful careers now. And I'm like, did I do too good of a job running them off? You know, and I'm, I'm really worried about that.

[00:07:31] Like, you know, I, um, and then is that the best thing? Is it? You know, and then where does that leave, you know, the succession planning for Hackery construction and, you know, they're still young and, and I'm not quite 80 yet. Uh, so in your, in your example where the guy is still running at 80, I'm not quite there yet.

[00:07:49] So, so yeah, that's really, that's a, that's a really fascinating thing. And it just makes me really reflect on my own succession planning about don't hang on too long. So, so. What are you, what is your planning? I know your kids have been, you have one that is working in and out of the business now, you have the one that's kind of on a little different trajectory, so can you kind of talk about tying all that in a little bit?

[00:08:15] Yeah, and that's, that's an interesting concept you just brought up because most people that I've visited with over the years who've had successful You know, transitions almost unanimously believe it's really, really important for your, your, your children to, to go outward before they come back. Because I think the other thing, it's kind of a death sentence for a family business is when your kids have no vision, they have no goals and they default back to the family business.

[00:08:54] So they come back with no passion, no energy, no drive. I've seen that quite well. And so I think it's really important that. That sending them off or driving them away or whatever kind of terminology you want to use, it's scary because you all want, I mean, my greatest blessing would be both my kids go, Dad, give us the baton, let us run.

[00:09:22] It'd be the ultimate honor. People have to go through their journey and everybody's journey is different. And some take longer than others. And, and some people's journeys, don't lead back to where us as parents. Want them to, from a selfish standpoint, obviously we think about our children. We just want them to be happy and prosperous, no matter what.

[00:09:45] Right. From a selfish perspective. We wanted to be healthy, prosperous and part of our family business, right? Nothing more rewarding than, like I said, you had an opportunity to work with your dad. I'm still blessed that my dad is still very active in and around the operation, being able to work in and around your family members.

[00:10:06] Is truly one of the most rewarding things is having those opportunities to, to, to grow together, deal with problems together, navigate together. And so I don't have the right answer, then I will tell you that most people that I've spoke to that successfully transition their business to the next generation.

[00:10:25] Almost unanimously have taken that approach of quote unquote running their kids off, right? And then the ones that want to fight their way back in and usually are very successful. Yeah. Yeah And then there's the big question of the family run business of what are the what do you do if they don't? You know, right.

[00:10:43] So that's, that's what I'm going to be facing potentially and potentially you too, because I, I would say Jordan has one foot in one fat out and, you know, in a good way, not a bad way, um, still very young. And then Cody, of course, is, is pretty, pretty young as well. So what do you, what are your kind of thoughts on how that's going to play out?

[00:11:03] And then what would you, what would you say about that? I guess at this point, I'm glad you, I'm glad we've worked our way to this concept because, you know, we could easily talk about. All these other dynamics that surround a family owned business, but this one is, is Really fascinating because, first of all, I had to come to terms with the fact that my identity wasn't my business.

[00:11:28] Really studied that for a long time. Wait a minute, you're telling me you have that figured out right now? No, I'm saying I, I'm trying to take ownership of it. I'm still working on that one. I'm still working on that one, dude. I tell you, I, yeah. That's, that's a, that's a tough one for me. That's a big one, right?

[00:11:45] And so when you go, am I making decisions for the future of my business? Because a lot of the decisions that you and I make have multi decade ramifications, right? A lot of the things you and I are doing aren't like for tomorrow or one year from now or five years now, there are 10, 20, 30 year commitments that we're making.

[00:12:08] And when you have to step back and say, well, what if my kids don't come back? What does that look like? I think it becomes one of the most confusing and complicated things because there's emotions involved. Anytime we can make business decisions that it's like why we were so successful in vestige. We can listen to somebody else's issue.

[00:12:30] We have no emotions tied and our vision is 2015. Yeah, you're, you're absolutely right. Yeah. And so for those of you who don't know, Vistage is a CEO group that Travis and I are both in. Um, we meet once a month with other CEOs. Kind of the only rule is that you can't have a direct competitor. Uh, in the group.

[00:12:50] So I remember joining thinking that, you know, uh, all I have the hardest business, we, ours is low bid. Uh, you know, you guys have no idea how difficult it is, you know, and even that was even reinforced in one of my first meetings about how, uh, they were complaining, you know, cause most of them are reading.

[00:13:07] Reading based large, you know, large in our mind and we're in a little rural, you know, Pitville, uh, Bernie, you know, uh, fall river mills. Right. And they're complaining about hard, how hard it is to get towns and people to want to live in reading. And I'm like, Oh my. Gosh, you guys have no idea, like, that's a times 10 up here, right?

[00:13:29] Unless you have some local roots. So, anyway, Vistage, again, getting back to that, is then what we realized is that every, every business has these incredible challenges, and they're all very similar, and that there is no easy business. That's one thing I've learned through Vistage. I think you would agree.

[00:13:46] So, anyway, didn't mean to take you off track, but I think, I thought that was a good segue there to kind of talk about Vistage and how good it's been for both of us. But anyway, go ahead, continue. I'm glad. I'm glad you took the opportunity to make the plug for Vistage because it has been instrumental in helping us find mentorship.

[00:14:08] That is extremely difficult to find in the positions that we have. Anyway, back to, back to our, our subject about your business, not being your identity, something I really struggle with. What's helped me is, is that when you have the swings that a lot of us have, cause I don't want to say the swings of agriculture, because you and I both know now that.

[00:14:29] All of us don't have anything special. We all have highs and lows and challenges and what have you. But when you're in the middle of those dips where you're concerned, you may be losing your business because of whatever issue has really forced you to face. Does that mean I'm a failure? Yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:14:53] And so having those been very powerful for me because I had to come to the conclusion that if. One of these events were to have negative ramifications on our business that that could not mean for the rest of my life. That's how I was going to see myself. So that was the beginning of my journey of trying to separate my identity and myself from my business.

[00:15:17] And it's, it's a journey, not a destination. And while I'm on that path, that's what kind of ties into trying to have the peace of nothing would make me happier than both of my kids want this being the right place for them. I don't want to get confused by saying what I want. I would want it if it's the right place for them.

[00:15:37] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I think that goes without saying. Right, if we're, yeah, I absolutely agree. You know, I, because what you and I are looking at really is, is A, um, we would be close to our kids, right, geographically. We'd be close to our grandkids, geographically. Right, that's, that's really what we're talking about.

[00:16:00] But not at the cost of them being unhappy. Or not fulfilled or not loving where they live, you know, um, and so I, I think it's important to, to clarify when you and I are saying, Hey, we would love that and be honored to have that, which we both would, it comes with those caveats, right? You know, there's the selfish, there's the selfish thing.

[00:16:24] Like, absolutely. They're close by. I get to see my grandkids. It's going to be amazing. Or, you know, versus. But are they fulfilled? And if the answer to any of those questions are no, then absolutely, that's, that's not what we want. So I, I just, I'm always so careful about with my kids feeling like. My job is, I think my dad did a good job of this, um, is there's an opportunity here if you want it, you know, and you know, he did make the call like, Hey, I need, I need you to come on.

[00:16:52] I've got some help, but it wasn't, he knew it was at a time when I was already just had Isaiah, we were living in Stockton, California, which, you know, there's really nice areas of Stockton. And there's some really piss poor areas of Stockton and we happened to live in a pretty nice area, but the reality was they were going to be gone through.

[00:17:11] Isaiah would be going to school through walking through a metal detector or putting them in private school or, you know, there's just a lot of challenges at that time, you know, I'm sure maybe that's still true. I don't know. I haven't kept up with Stockton that much, but at that time it was true. And, you know, so he knew it was a good time to go, Hey, this is an option.

[00:17:30] Right. And, um, we jumped at the option and it's been, it's been the best thing for our family. And yes, we had to fight, you know, for our place here, but again, um, it worked and I think he was ready to, he still wanted to be out on the cruise and be, but he didn't want anything to do with the office and the financials and deal with the banks and bonding companies.

[00:17:51] He didn't want any part of that stuff. And so it really worked out well. I had a very clear place to come into the business and. And so in that way he made it, he made it like, Hey, this is your domain, you know, uh, do your best not to F it up and I'm going to, I'm going to be out there working, you know? And so that was pretty magical when I look back at it, you know, at that time I was like, I don't want to be stuck at the office.

[00:18:15] You know, I looked at it as kind of a, a negative at that point. And I don't want to be the guy stuck in the office. I want to be out there where the work is. That's where the exciting stuff is going on. But. It also gave me a place that was mine in the business and I was solely responsible for. And boy, I'll tell you what, when you talk about, Hey, I want my kids to join.

[00:18:32] Well, okay, here are the, here are the keys. Don't F it up. Um, that's a very different conversation, right? So you and I, our employees are also like family and you and I have a tremendous, uh, feeling of responsibility that they. are going to be taken care of and that we're not going to let any leadership, whether it's our kid or another leadership group, come in and wreck that and potentially put them out of a job.

[00:19:06] Right. And so, yeah, there was a, there was a lot to unpack there with, with, Hey, the biggest succession challenge is, is the founder or the, the generation that's currently running and not stepping away soon enough. And I'm like, gosh, dang, that is a, you're probably right on point. That's exactly why. But the flip side of that is also, it's not easy.

[00:19:28] It's not easy to just go. Here you go. Good luck. I'll, I'll be in, I'll be in, you know, Mexico on a beach. Good luck. So yeah, great point there, buddy. So I have a. You know, probably a little bit more closer association with your dad's mentality that I really do love the work part, even though I don't get to do a lot of work anymore.

[00:19:51] I like working with my team. Like I said, you have an amazing responsibility when you have a, especially a small community business, because there's not a lot of alternatives and opportunities for people. And in developing a business, it has so many ramifications to the whole community, the businesses, the stores, the schools.

[00:20:09] Alright, it's a really big deal and a huge responsibility and I really enjoy that part of it and really look forward to that. And so, with respect to the kids, I've just come to that peace that my job is to throw gas on whatever fire they have burning. And I'm going to continue doing what I love to do.

[00:20:32] And if our, if our paths cross here, awesome. If not, I'm going to back to your analogy about being the sports parent. I'm going to enjoy watching them perform on whatever court they choose to perform on. I love that. I love that. And then, you know, I guess, so you and I were talking, you mentioned how we're making 20, 30.

[00:20:54] 50 year decisions. Right. And, and I think both businesses are very similar. So kind of tell the audience about what a 20, 30, 50 year decisions look like in your business. Sure. So, um, how, how our business basically functions. Um, we're agriculturally based, uh, we have land that we own and operate, we have land that we lease, we have land that we develop from scratch, and so typically, when we're going onto ground that we lease, Our, our ultimate goal is to either have a long term relationship with that, that the landlord or ultimately be in a position where we can buy it.

[00:21:39] And, and so typically, um, when we're making decisions on leasing ground. Capital infrastructures to support that all of those things typically have on the short end paybacks of five years and we start talking about real estate processing facilities and infrastructure. Most of those have 10, 15, 20 year paybacks.

[00:22:01] Um, so land purchasing solar projects as an example. And then obviously then you start staffing and growing your organization to support that. And obviously all those things start becoming, you know, you typically don't spend the time and energy to develop talent because that talent typically wanting to start producing to their potential for at least five years.

[00:22:27] So really the energy and money you're investing into individual people. First five years, as you know, in a company really is getting them to reach their potential and, and, and find their basis before you really turn them loose and find out how dynamic they are. So on the people side, it's a minimum of five year commitment to develop talent and get them really integrated into your system and into your culture.

[00:22:50] As you know, you're a big core values guy too, right? Spending all that time, making sure that those core values are. Concrete in people's minds and then getting like, you know, getting all those people learning those people how to integrate and play with each other is something that takes time. Once it happens, as you know, once you have a team that really knows how to function and play and, and pass the proverbial ball, it gets really fun.

[00:23:17] It's magic. So magical watch capital infrastructure, real estate purchasing. Those are the things that typically have the very longest ramifications. Um, especially when you're developing ground from scratch, I mean, it'll take five to seven years to get something from scratch to get it into a productive state and get everything, get everything perfected on it from a nutritional standpoint, um, irrigation standpoint, whatever the case may be.

[00:23:47] That's something that used to really trouble me when I was going through our previous subject, which was, Well, should we be doing this if our kids don't want to do this? We're constantly struggling with, do we, do we want this piece of real estate? Do we take on that project? Do we take on that contract?

[00:24:04] What if five years from now they don't want to come back? And, and uh, Michelle and I came to the conclusion that we need to pursue our life and our goals exactly how we want to. And hopefully that role model is something that becomes very attractive to our kids. To where they want to come back to it.

[00:24:28] But if not, we'll have no regrets. We're going to run, I said, if that means that I'm here doing this at 80 because nobody else wants to do it and I choose to be here, that's, I think the happiest people are choosing to do what they do versus having to do something. Yeah. Well, that's a great way to reconcile that because I was just going to ask you, I'm like, so how are you doing that?

[00:24:52] Because I, I would say, you know, we, we have, you know, when we're permitting a new quarry, it's a 50 year. It's a 50 year permit, you know, and, uh, it's, it's a tremendous investment. And we, we're always tell people we're, we're not playing checkers. We're playing chess. We're playing a long game, long, long game, multi generational game that we're playing.

[00:25:18] And I think, you know, that's, that's kind of unique in construction. Uh, but it's not in farming. It's not, I mean, you guys are always, your, your whole industry is thinking multi generational, which is one of those rare business, business groups or sectors, I guess, better way to say it, that actually thinks generationally.

[00:25:40] Most people are thinking quarterly at fiscal year end, right? That's, that's what they're thinking about is how, how do I make as much money as possible and how to show on my financials, right? Or, or I made a bunch of money and how do I, how do I. Tax shelter at the best of this year, and then repeat, do the same thing next year.

[00:25:59] They're thinking one, two years in advance, maybe, you know, or a five year piece of equipment is the longest timeframe, the longest horizon, most, most. Business owners that I'm talking to, um, that's, it's a much shorter timeframe, right? I got to survive. You know, I, I, how can I be thinking multi generational when I'm not, I'm sure my business will be here two years from now if I'm not continually, um, adjusting to all the change, you know, and how difficult it is to work in California.

[00:26:30] I'm, I'm like debating whether, you know. Uh, we should even be in California five years from now, should be, should we be exiting the state because it's so challenging, you know, on, on business to run small businesses. So can you talk a little bit about, I remember one conversation you and I had, uh, the drought was maybe 18 months ago.

[00:26:50] Drought was kind of at the, at the high point. And you mentioned to me. They're coming after our like 1914 of the years, right? The water rights, the water rights that were considered sacred in your industry, sacred, untouchable. They were suddenly talking about maybe they're not so untouchable on the, maybe they might have to start taking those from, from you can elaborate on that.

[00:27:19] Do it. Did I get that right? Or even close? Yeah. You're definitely getting it right. And you know, I, I think just to regress, just, just to hear, you know, there's, you We've kind of focused this conversation around, you know, uh, our, our next generation being our kids. Um, the reality is we, we have a responsibility to our team.

[00:27:39] And if our team doesn't see new team, new growth, whatever else, then they have to go, is this my career? Is this my future? Because the reality is, is the way we run our business model and where you run your business model, we're looking for the same types of people. We're looking for the same level of talent, the same type of mindset, same cultural fits, same values.

[00:27:59] And so, for us, we also realize that In order for this to continue to be a great opportunity, a great place for people to be, you know, we're going to ultimately eventually be incorporating non family members into the ownership model, you know, kind of like what Paul does, right? That, uh, so that's another thing that in order for this, like I said, because, you know, if they look at their owner and he's 70 years old.

[00:28:27] And, and if it's, this is only a transition to a family member and they don't see a family member there. You see how that would be a very confusing thing for a 25 year old that you're trying to recruit saying, Hey, we would like you to come to work for us for the next 40 years. And so. We spent a lot of time working on that side of the equation as well and that's kind of something we didn't really really dive into in too much too much depth is trying to groom non family members and working them in through sweat equity into ownership positions as well to add a more dynamic base to the future of the operation.

[00:29:03] Anyway, back to that. So, yes, it was. Understood that senior water right holders who were pre 1914 riparian water right holders, kind of had the senior water right right they were the, the, the untouchables, if you will, with respect to water rights, and during this last drought phase, the governor of California was given some special powers kind of state of emergency type powers, where he used that to give the State Water Resources Board The power to curtail even senior water right pre 1914 water right users, which was a real big shocker for I think the entire industry because people thought, you know, if I am fortunate enough to have land that is attached to this type of water, right.

[00:29:59] There's some security there and the water subject in agriculture is something you and I can do a whole podcast on or maybe a series of podcasts on. It's a, it's a, right? We know, I mean, there's so many books written about California. Liquid gold is water, right? Not the other commodity, but it is short, short answer here is, is that that is something that really Concerned me because the value of our business, the value of our land, the value of our ability to continue to move forward is based on the fact that we're doing every irrigated agriculture and if irrigation was was taken away for whatever reason, that's that's a big deal.

[00:30:45] And to be totally frank, I don't know how to navigate that situation, other than we have been on the locations where we are. We're solely reliant on surface water and that's what this is in reference to his surface water diversions. So moving water like out of a river onto a piece of land that has the right to have that done.

[00:31:06] We have been investing once again. Into ag wells that take 25 to 30 years to pay back to make sure that we have other groundwater sources to support that so that we don't either see a radical decrease in our agricultural land value or our businesses ability to function. So we that's the moves that we've been taking to mitigate that.

[00:31:31] Um, but, uh, it will be interesting to see how water plays out in the state of California. And just real quick. I think that the biggest challenge to oversimplify the water issue. Is, is that if Perry and I were sharing a 32 ounce big gulp and each of us invited 20 friends and put 20 more or 40 more straws into the big gulp, as opposed to getting the 44 ounce big gulp, and what I'm getting at is infrastructure storage.

[00:31:59] So the state of California's population is probably more than doubled in the last 20 years. I'm only guessing. I don't know the exact statistics. And to my knowledge, we've done nothing to improve the water storage capacity. Of our state during that period, right? So that affects everybody that affects everybody from, you know, uh, average citizen to a, to a business owner.

[00:32:20] Um, it's an issue that I hope can get figured out in the future. Yeah. No, I think that's, you know, uh, I think Brian Dally talks about that all the time. You know, he's one of the biggest advocates of we've got to figure out some storage. And I think he's got some very disturbing facts on how much the population has grown.

[00:32:41] I think it's at least double. Um, and then the fact that in the last, you know, 20 plus, maybe even 30 years, there hasn't been a single, um, significant water storage. Um, project, uh, that the state has undertaken, you know, and just, just, uh, the solution has been figure out how to get by with less and then compound that with the drought and, you know, over and over again, you know, kind of like the electric.

[00:33:09] You know, so, you know, I'll talk. So you talked about your water thing. One of our big things in our business is carb, right? So California air resources board, that's a, that's a massive thing right now. And, uh, we're considered a large fleet. So we have, um, you know, around. 14, 000 horsepower is what our fleet has.

[00:33:29] So we're considered a large fleet. We do over 50 million a year. So we're kind of subject to the most stringent carb requirements. Uh, so we're up in a captive area, which, um, can, can help you with some of that stuff, but we also work up and down the whole state, uh, when we need to, obviously when we work close to home is when we want to be working out of our own quarries is what.

[00:33:54] Um, we're, we're working on our own queries is what we call level one, level two. That's what, there's enough level one work. That's all we do, but there isn't enough level one work typically. So we have to travel. So we need to work anywhere within the state. When we work in Nevada, we work in Oregon at times.

[00:34:11] So, uh, the whole point of this is that we are. On under the most stringent carb requirements, so our fleet is compliant. Our trucks are compliant, but this whole moving to electric thing is really starting to rear its head. And in fact, as early as I want to say, 2028, while. Pretty significant portion of our horsepower is supposed to be electric.

[00:34:39] Well, our yellow iron, they don't even have effective, um, electric options yet in the yellow iron. So, um, but it's being pushed in the, the trucks and our pickups. That's where it's coming first and with yellow iron closely following right now. So right now you and I. I mean, you will see, we're not like in, like in LA, you see a Tesla is every fifth car, electric cars, every fifth car up here.

[00:35:09] It's more like every 500th car, right? Cause there's just not a very good charging infrastructure up here also gets really, there's, um, a lot of hills, which a lot of mountains and a lot of snow, which, you know, where it's really cold, those electric batteries don't perform near as well. Um, so, and then the charging infrastructure.

[00:35:29] So, you know, uh, I, I saw the, one of the, one of the card meetings, I saw somebody very educated was talking about, do you realize, you know, for a company that has 30 tractor trader trucks, uh, the megabyte requirements or the, excuse me, the, um, Requirements, megawatt requirements. Thank you. Megawatt requirements to charge those 30 trucks and do it in a time frame that they'll be ready to go in, you know, eight hours after they've worked all day is larger than the entire factory that the truck was built.

[00:36:07] Do you realize that's just for 30 trucks and we're going We're not even close to being ready. Infrastructure wise. Look, I'm I've driven a Tesla. I I'm you've driven a Tesla. Those things are amazing. And I understand the longevity. You don't have transmissions. You don't have, um, they're much more reliable.

[00:36:25] There's a lot of pluses with electric. If you have. The electric infrastructure to facilitate it, but I feel like until we are talking about doing something like nuclear, you know, where you're getting huge, huge, uh, power returns out of small areas, um, and a relatively small. Footprint, not like solar or wind and, and very, you know, huge bang for your buck with the power is really cheap, you know, on that.

[00:36:58] And I'm no expert on this, but I do know that we're not ready. That's what I know. And I just feel like they're, they're. pushing these dates on us. And as a company, it's one of our, it's one of the biggest threats that we're dealing with right now is, you know, can we stay in California? And I haven't figured out how to pick up quarries and move them to another state.

[00:37:15] You don't. So our feeling is, um, we are going to be at the forefront of this and just stay at the forefront of this and opportunity comes to those who don't. Check out, right? So lots of companies are checking out and leaving, but there's lots of people that still live in this state, still my favorite state.

[00:37:34] Uh, I love living here. I don't want to give it up. So how do we stay here? And we're going to, we're going to fight the good fight because we haven't figured out how to move quarries and we love living here. So with that in mind, hopefully, uh, senior minds prevail and we, at least we need workable solutions, uh, for this unique area where I get it in the middle of LA.

[00:37:54] It works. Um, Potential. They still have to up their infrastructure, their electrical infrastructure, because I remember during some of the brownouts that was happening a couple of years ago, they were telling people not to plug in their cars in the afternoons, right? Wait till it's dark, you know, and the grid is not under duress.

[00:38:13] So there's still grid issues, but I could see it working in LA, but I, they've got a long ways to go to make it work up here in the beautiful North state where we live. I'm with you. Carb, carb is a huge issue for all of us in business, right? You have yellow iron, I have green iron. John Deere is trying to figure out how to be prepared because it's obvious what the expectation is.

[00:38:34] Um, but yeah, there's a huge gap between the deadlines and the expectations and like I said, the infrastructure, not even just on the electrical side and the charging side, but even on the, you know, making things function and work side. And I don't have the answers. I know it's incredibly confusing because we are still to this day sent.

[00:38:55] Emails and letters from BG and E saying, please reduce your power consumption at this time and this time and this time, when probably I'm guessing less than 1 percent of California's on electrification as far as, you know, significant. Vehicle usage. When we started talking about bringing on commercial trucks, which are big power, big batteries, agricultural and construction equipment.

[00:39:19] My thought process is simple. I don't care if it burns diesel or burns electricity, right? Whatever works, whatever makes sense. And obviously we all live on this planet. So the idea of being eco friendly, obviously if we live here, it's a no brainer, but how do we achieve that? And what are going to be the ramifications to us in business?

[00:39:38] While they're figuring out those logistics, and how do we navigate that position ourselves the best, because like I said, if we start getting, like I said, our inability to run cats or tractors or what have you, because like I said, the truck thing, it does appear it's At least the, the, the, the, on the supply side does appear that they're making progress with vehicles that potentially can function when they're charged.

[00:40:04] Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. what do you think we've been talking about a few of the challenges, right?

[00:40:26] So, what do you love about what you do and being in farming? Let's talk about some of the, the cool stuff that we get to do in our businesses and, and what we love about it and what, why we're fired up to get out of bed and go do it every day. Can you share some of that with me, Travis? Well, I'm glad we're shifting gears because it's really easy to, um, focus or discuss the challenges that exist, you know, as business owners in California, right?

[00:40:51] And they're there, they're real. And, you know, we know I'm going in and so we just have to navigate him, but being a small business owner is hyper rewarding, um, because whatever you achieve or whatever you don't achieve, it all comes back on you. And there's something extremely rewarding about realizing that this, this accountability and, and, and the cause and effect.

[00:41:21] And I think a lot of the people that work with us and work for us also feel like that when they're, when they're, when they're accomplished, things getting done that, you know, when you finish prepping a field and come by and a couple of weeks later, and it's all greened up and everybody that was in part of the, the ground prep process to the planting fertility processes, weed control process, irrigation process, everybody gets to have part of that victory and it never gets old, it's just like the sunsets and sunrises we have here.

[00:41:51] Every day is the best one. I don't know how that's possible, but literally tonight, when you and I go outside, if it's still there, we're going to go, this is the most amazing sunset ever. And that's kind of how it feels to be in, in agriculture and in business, is that it's the most amazing crop, the most amazing situation.

[00:42:12] And, and I'm really blessed because, um, we all have friends that chose careers for different reasons. And, and have gotten different fulfillment or lack thereof out of them. Maybe it was simply, they chose it for compensation. Maybe they chose it for flexible hours. But the one thing that I'm grateful that I've never had a conversation with anybody about is, is that I have 12 years, 37 days, and 22 minutes until I retire.

[00:42:41] Boy, boy, we all know some of those guys and gals, don't we? Yeah, for sure. And, um, like I said, it's kind of a blessing and a curse because I think you have to be careful that you don't end up being all consumed by it. Because when you do love what you do, you know, the reality is, is, is life is a very dynamic thing.

[00:43:05] And it's really easy when you and I do what we do with the people that we do it with that we also really truly enjoy. Right. Also remind ourselves, and that's something that you and I are really good as friends at, is calling each other out and saying, Hey, right. Yeah. Taking a vacation, spending time with your bride, your kids, whatever the case may be.

[00:43:23] And that's probably. One of the many super valuable things that we've done for each other because we do get so involved into what we do and so passionate about it that time goes by and stuff happens and, and, and it's rewarding and awesome. But we also have to remember that there's so many other parts of life.

[00:43:42] And I have so much value in that are rewarding as well. And so that's kind of the pro and the con of being a small business owner. And also, like I said, being in agriculture because, you know, one of our mottos or logos is growing into the future and it's cool because what agriculture is all about is literally growing, right?

[00:44:01] Not, not just physically growing the size of a company, but literally growing stuff all the time. It never gets old watching what mother nature can do, what things and how things can grow. I remember the very first time we raised sugar beets. You plant one pound of seed per acre and in five months you haul off 60, 000 pounds of material per acre.

[00:44:23] What? Are you serious? I mean the only thing that kind of competes with that biomass wise would be like corn. Right. That if you actually, wow, but yeah, sugar beet, you plant a pound of seed breaker, which I was like, that doesn't make sense to me why you'd have one little kernel every six inches. And then like I said, when you raise a good crop, you make 30 plus tons per acre.

[00:44:45] It's just fascinating to watch that happen and how something can be so delicate for the first three weeks. So you'd think something that grows at that rate would be like unstoppable. Well, the first you look at it cross eyed, it dies. Wow. Right. I'm still getting my, my head around one pound for an acre turns to 60, is crazy.

[00:45:10] But what's even crazier to me with that is the one pound to cover 4, 000 that's 42, 000 some odd square feet. Right. Right. So. Are you kidding me? I'm like, so, so one pound, is this like a powder that you, I mean, I can't even It's like a peppercorn is what a sugar beet seed looks like. Okay, so it's, so, so it has, it has like very little mass weight to it, right?

[00:45:37] So, but it, because if it's a, if it's the size of a kernel and it, and it has any density to it, that's still, you're putting one of those about every 50 feet if it has any weight over a whole acre, right? So obviously it's really light, but that's still, man, that blows my mind. I had no idea. That's really cool.

[00:45:54] That was a fascinating experience because it was our, our first exposure to precision agriculture, right? Cause so there's field cropping, you know, agriculture obviously is a hyper dynamic. There's so many people talk about ag, they talk about like it's one thing and ag really. Because of how supply and demand works individually per commodity, ag is really this breadbasket of hundreds if not thousands of commodities because one commodity can be kicking butt while the other commodity is going into the tank.

[00:46:26] So people are like, how is ag? You're like, well, what do you do? Which part of ag are you talking about? Even within our diversification scheme, things are going in opposite directions constantly, which is why diversification is so important. But anyway, just, just to kind of close on that subject, it, it, it just never gets old watching the sunrise and the sunset, and it never gets old watching your team go out there and, and spend all the time and energy.

[00:46:54] And then thankfully we get to see the reward quite quick because every year there's a host. It's like the circle of life completes every single year. And then you get to start all over again next year and see what's possible, what you can do, and can you do it better and, and the feedback that comes from the crops and the growing and the, you know, I, you and I both know a friend of ours, Dale Brubaker, he drives by one of our fields next to Weston's house.

[00:47:19] He's like, what did you plant there? Are you going to cut it in the middle of winter? It's huge. Yeah, yeah. The cool thing about agriculture is, is that because it's part of kind of our country's roots, that even people, cause Dale has nothing to do with agriculture, never been involved in agriculture. Still hyper fascinated when you tell somebody you're a farmer you instantly have a fan base.

[00:47:41] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Well, I don't I think it's one of the most noble professions on earth. I mean without it we don't eat I mean, it's that simple, you know, and so we're out being hunters and gatherers, which yeah, that doesn't sound super fun to me So, you know, thank you for what you do You know, we just talk about that like in the so first of all before I get I wanted to, before I forgot, I wanted to say you're mostly Lassen County.

[00:48:06] So how many acres do you own and manage and kind of, is it all Lassen County or some Shasta County? I believe you've got a kind of a, but it's primarily Lassen and a lot in Shasta too, right? Yeah, so I literally was working with a crop insurance person before this call, and he was asking me what percentage of acreage is in Alaska and Shasta, and I'm, we don't manager or, or, or watch it from that perspective.

[00:48:35] I think it's fair if I take a guess it's fairly close to equal Shasta County farmed acres that matter of fact Shasta County might now have, you know, succeeded and grown outside of what Lassen County's acreage is so from an acre standpoint we're probably about 60 percent Shasta 40 percent Lassen County right now.

[00:48:53] But a lot of the growth opportunities you've had have come on the Shasta County side of the line. Um, but, uh, we're, we're farming, um, of our own ground, whether that's owned and or leased. Uh, that's about 5, 000 acres. And then we do another 2, 000 to 3, 000 acres of other people's harvesting, ground prepping, management services.

[00:49:18] That's incredible. Land leveling. That's incredible. Whatever the case may be. And, um, you know, it, it, it sounds interesting, but the reality is, is. Because in agriculture, margins continue to shrink like things like you said about water, right? We're expecting this. The answer in ag is always just be more efficient.

[00:49:38] And I shouldn't say that like it's only ag because you and I both learned valuable lessons about we're not so unique with our problems and challenges, but efficiency is always the answer as. Life inflates and, and what we produce doesn't inflate at even close to the same rate. And that's a hyper confusing concept because what people pay at the store does inflate.

[00:50:05] Continues to inflate. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. So people have this real big misconception. I'll give you a perfect example. So we harvest about 7 million pounds of garlic a year. And so this, uh, we, we're always trying to engage with schools and young kids and people and show them who we are, what we're doing, what we're about at a group of school kids out.

[00:50:24] And one kid was staring at about a hundred bins of garlic and a bin of garlic has about 2, 500 pounds of garlic in it. And he, his eyes were big and he was looking at me. In a way that I was like going, he looks like he's looking at Elon Musk and I don't know why. He's just got this look. And so I'm like, Hey, but what, what's going on?

[00:50:44] What are you thinking about? And he goes, how much money's here right now? ? And I looked at him and, and I went, well, what do you mean? He goes, well, my mom bought a bowl of garlic at the store the other day, and it was $2 for one bill. And he was looking at this bin that probably had, I have no idea how much.

[00:51:04] How many balls, but maybe 20, 000. So literally he was like, Hey, Ilan. And I, I unfortunately unintentionally burst his bubble really quick. Cause at that time I was getting paid about 19 cents a pound, not a ball, but a pound, which is like a hand. And. I suddenly really lost stock value with that young man really quick.

[00:51:28] I was like, Oh yeah, absolutely. He's like, you're not very bright. Why don't you just haul it to Safeway and put it in the store directly? You'd make a lot more money, Travis. And so it's a, it's an interesting thing that I think there's a big disconnect from the consumer to the producer. When a consumer is paying, I have no idea what beef is in the store right now, because we obviously harvest our own beef.

[00:51:50] Say it's 5 a pound for beef in the store. And people are going, well, farmers must be doing good or ranchers in that case must be doing quite well because beef has ramped up, right? And so, you know, understanding how a supply chain works in agriculture is something I think we've done a poor job of educating people because when they see the price of milk or the price of eggs, Going through the roof, they're like, wow, then the producer must be really killing it.

[00:52:14] And in some cases that is true because how all the supply chains work are radically different. But like on the beef side, what it means is the packers are killing it. Because the packer, the pack in the beef industry is controlled by a very small group of people in the United States, right? Who, I believe, have also been the ones who promoted a lot of the regulatory stuff because they're large enough to comply and their, their fledgling competition can't, right?

[00:52:38] It's a very smart move by them, right? Right, right. But it also allows them to have the ability to control how much they pay for a live animal. Versus how much they get to charge on the other side of the supply chain. It's one of the interesting dynamics of agriculture is within that vertical supply chain, somebody in there has a disproportionate rate of return for the amount of risk they assume.

[00:53:01] Which is why vertical integration is so huge. It's why we're spending so much time and energy to figure out how to vertically integrate because on the production side, we're big risk takers. And primarily because weather is one of the number one factors that that outside of crop rotations and diversity, we can't mitigate.

[00:53:20] It's just something we live with. And so, vertical integrating is something that's really key to our business model. Um, so that we can figure out how to capture some of those additional returns. Um, with less risk exposure per dollar return. So, tell us, give us a couple examples of vertical integration that you guys are doing now that you weren't doing 10 years ago.

[00:53:45] Yeah, so one of the first vertical integration moves when we started raising peppermint Um, that we then decided that, you know what, if we can take the bulk peppermint product and process it down to a refined distilled product, that was something that had very little risk in, in that process, uh, that was a steam extraction process.

[00:54:06] So we'd introduce steam into peppermint plants and steam takes oil and water into a gas so you can divide gravity momentarily. Then it goes into a condenser where you add cold water, changing it back from a gas to a liquid. Oil and water have different bulk densities and weights and, and separate.

[00:54:21] That's the oversimplified version of peppermint distillation. And so then we were able to not only make that move, but then we were able to then have a very dense, high value product that we could ship. Um, same kind of thing in the hay business. You know, if you think about it, you know, hay feeds a dairy cow.

[00:54:43] Hay is a very bulky, low value product. Because one of the disadvantages we have in living in, uh, I think the greatest place on earth personally, obviously partially, but I think the intermountain area with the people circumstances, everything that's here is, is truly the most amazing place to live. We are geographically disadvantaged.

[00:55:04] And so figure out how to have higher valuable, more bulk dense products freighted is part of that part of that process. Um. The other thing we're doing, uh, vertical integration wise, you know, on the hay side is, is working our way down from just being a producer to being a broker, which is another component of the hay business.

[00:55:27] Um, and then, and then getting into the supply chain where we're actually on the retail side and have retail exposure. So another traditional example of vertical integration that we weren't doing, we really were spending, spending a lot of time focusing on, on, on the production and the agricultural side.

[00:55:44] And thankfully Um, I came to the conclusion that just working hard isn't going to help us create our goals. And that was a, probably somewhere in my late twenties to my early thirties. I'm like, you know what, I put in 3, 200 hours this year. I'm not sure. And I don't see the millions rolling in. So there's got to be more.

[00:56:03] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those are a couple of examples of some of the vertical integration. That we've done and we're messing with other products trying to repackage and rebrand certain hate products to try to get into the different lanes that, uh, you and I've talked about that, that, that concept, uh, multiple times.

[00:56:19] We're still trying to get traction with that specific concept. Uh, yep. Yep. Awesome. Okay. So you touched on, this is kind of our last segment, so you kind of touched on how great it is to live where we live. So what I want you to do is say, so what is so great about where we live? What is a person that hasn't visited this area?

[00:56:40] What did they come do? When they come here, what's the perfect weekend getaway to come spend time and get a taste of, of where we live and what makes it so special. So give me a few things on that topic before we part for the, for the episode here. So partially from being a multigenerational family person from this, this area and partially from, from coaching, get a lot of questions about people.

[00:57:08] What makes Farrer so special. Right. We're a little tiny community. Our high school has approximately 150 kids in nine through 12. And what, why are, why are our kids able to come out of this community and, and, and be successful. I know we kind of wrap a lot of this around sports, but really it. Sports is an awesome tool because it teaches you to deal with adversity and adversity is something we all face in life.

[00:57:37] And so if you can use sports as the tool to teach people how to come together and unify and, and face adversity and fail forward, which is what sports is really truly all about. Because obviously we know most of our kids are not going to the NBA or NFL or Major League Baseball, but they're all going to hopefully become amazing adults.

[00:57:56] And what makes this place so special is, and this was my answer to the last person that I ran into, um, down, down in Reading, was I said, well, what makes it special is I said, every little corner where somebody can practice because we have limited facilities here. So literally there'll be people practicing, you know, T ball and the football field because there's no room on the one baseball field.

[00:58:19] I said every little corner, every little place where somebody can be doing something, you know, like a Tim DeCuito and a Dom Traverso, right? Guys that just stay out there at the baseball diamond and say if kids want to come work on foundational skill sets, right? Work on fundamentals. We're here. And there's people like that in our community everywhere.

[00:58:43] And so, the kids that want that exposure and opportunity that may not even have parents that are athletes, may not have parents that have the wherewithal, you know, you and I have both coached multiple situations of, of, you know, elementary, junior high, high school, and, and traveling sports. Whether the kids have the wherewithal or not is irrelevant because they're getting in the car with whoever does.

[00:59:08] It doesn't matter, right? We want them to have the experience. We want them to, to be part of, of being able to grow up and like I said, and learn how to handle adversity, right? And learn that, you know what, I'm going to get better from this process instead of walking away from those types of experiences.

[00:59:23] And I really truly believe that when you, when you go, um, as you know, like I said, just kind of staying on the theme of sports, when you, our average league game is two hour travel each direction. When you go two hours away, excuse me, I'm gonna lock the door real quick.

[00:59:45] You go to an away game and there's more people from Fall River, say at Trinity High School, which is two and a half hours away than there are Trinity kids. Then. That says what a lot about that community. And then when you look up in the stands and you see three generations of people, it's Mind bending to watch that and they're not just there to watch their grandchild or their child matter of fact, a lot of the third generation people that are there, right?

[01:00:22] I'll just mention a couple names is like Bill and Betty Stoltenberg. I don't think I've had an athlete in the school. For four or five years. Yeah, Bud and Ruthie Knox. Bud and Ruthie Knox. Yeah, yeah. That are just there because they support what it's all about and what's important. And I think that that's the thing that people need to understand about our community is that when you have this multi generational fabric and this foundation of people that embrace you regardless of what your last name is, what you're about, who you are.

[01:00:59] That's truly the magic of our area, and that's why, just to kind of put a plug in for our school and our kids. That's why a school of 150 kids can win a state football championship over Morro Bay that had 1, 100 kids. Yep. Right? Right. Absolutely. Integrity, work ethic, all the things that are beautiful about our community, that kids get to have jobs, right?

[01:01:24] Kids get to go out and, and, and, and. be held accountable by the public because they're going to know if your kid passed the stop sign without stopping before they get to school. And it may be frustrating them temporarily, but as they grow up, become adults are like, wow, that was so cool that those people are watching out for me.

[01:01:43] And so cool that when I'm in need, people are there. And so yes, do we have amazing things here? Can you go snow skiing in the morning at Mount Shasta 45 minutes away and then drive a 45 minutes down the road to Shasta Lake and water ski in the afternoon? Yeah, that's pretty cool. But I truly don't think that's the magic of what, what our community and what, what, what the intermountain area, you know, and, and I speaking specific about Fall River just because I, I, our sister communities in Big Valley and Bernie are awesome, wonderful people, but it's only fair for me to speak specifically on what I know.

[01:02:18] Correct. That's the true magic of our area. Everybody sees the beauty in the mountains and the sunsets and the geography, right? And the rivers and the world class fly fishing and all the things we have here. But if you're looking for the right things, the magic is in the people.